We're not safe going to the toilet on our own

[mrsbrown]

At my new workplace the women's toilets are locked and you have to collect a key everytime you head there. They are located in the stairwell so you sometimes also need a key to get into the stairwell. The men don't have a locked toilet.

I hate it.

I hate that I have to announce to the office (yes, nobody's interested or notices, this is my rant) that I'm off to the loo for the 5th time this morning. I hate the conversations, "where's the key?" and "Oh yes, Jane often puts the key in her pocket". I hate having to wait for the key to come back when I've finally dragged myself away from my work to attend to my exploding bladder. I hate talking about my toilet habits, even the ones that don't involve actual waste.

I hate the constant subtle reminder that
we are not safe
men are able to look after themselves and women aren't
women need to be protected.

It's not true and I'm not convinced that the proles around here are able to see beyond the bullshit.

Yesterday the office was broken into and the key to the toilet and stairs was stolen. I've been letting my inner feminist out and trying to agitate to remove the key requirement altogether. I've been dreaming of putting a rant similar to this on the backs of the toilet cubicle doors and providing a wedge to prop the door open. Now I don't think I'll bother.

Today a male manager came to us and asked that we take responsibility for the re-keying of the toilet lock. He apologised and said he was only doing it because the women in his workplace were asking for it. They don't feel "safe".

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/raven_/]

Wow - that's very frustrating, on all counts.

Can you each get a key?

Are you for real?!?!

[villana.livejournal.com]

So why do the women feel "unsafe" using the loo at your work. Is there a safety issue that they expose themselves to when they unlock that door? Should your boss be addressing that rather than handing out bandaids, um I mean keys. *snort*

Rise up! Reclaim the loo!

Re: Are you for real?!?!

[(Anonymous)]

To get to the loo, we have to go into the stairwell and up a flight of stairs.

I think someone thinks that "someone" (the bogeyman perhaps) can get into the toilet without being observed and assault someone (woman)

Re: Are you for real?!?!

[(Anonymous)]

that'd be me, mrsbrown.

I can't be arsed logging in again.

Re: Are you for real?!?!

[http://users.livejournal.com/raven_/]

Because, of course, none of you are able/capable of defending yourselves.

Ugh.

Re: Are you for real?!?!

[mayela-delarue.livejournal.com]

Could be worse... could you imagine a buddy system like in primary school "umm, excuse my Sue, sorry to bother you again and I know you're on deadline but I'm just dieing to go to the loo and check my lippy and stuff... can you take me?"

I like the key each idea... not to mention the lock the bottom and top of the stairwell and leave the doors to the loo unlocked option. I imagine it's a fire escape stairwell?

Re: Are you for real?!?!

[omgwtfhorsybird.livejournal.com]

Why not one of those combination locks instead of a keyed lock?

[monstah.livejournal.com]

First I think you need to embrace the Dutch custom of announcing when you have to go to the toilet.
Here are some examples...
Hand strait up in the air and shout 'BUSTING'
Or 'fuck me I need a slash'
or 'geeeez I need a piss'
or 'Ik wil pissen'

alternatively you could install a chamber pot under your desk.

Or you could mention that the bacteria collected from handling the loo key is far more dangerous that some wanker in the stairwell!

[sootysmudge.livejournal.com]

That would be incredibly frustrating.Irrespective of any 'safety' issues (and BTW why is it deemed unsafe for women in your building to go to the toilet?), it would be much easier if a better security system (ex swipe cards) could be installed and for you all to be issued one.. but then that would involve time, effort and money which your company/building owner may not want to do/spend.

[lurextoga.livejournal.com]

Wedge it open and/or arrange to accidentally get the men's keyed-up at the same time as the female loos are fixed ... see how they like it. Perhaps refuse to use the female and start going to the male toilets.

I kind of get security-consciousness with loos in CBD buildings, but one key for all the women and no security for the men does tell a story all by itself - and the other behaviours you mention just add up to systemic sexist idiocy.

[splodgenoodles.livejournal.com]

But given other women have apparently requested it, what should be done?

Women have a right to feel safe, even if it inconveniences others. If they had been denied increased security, I can imagine people suggesting that management were refusing to acknowledge our needs and provide a safe workplace.

The problem with toilets is that they are spaces that are cut off from the rest of the place so if you do have concerns about your personal safety you aren't going to feel safe.

While the key sounds over the top, I don't feel safe walking into toilets, especially not now that I am not physically strong. I am simply used to feeling apprehensive in public and semi-public spaces. Personally, I'd prefer a bank of unisex toilets a la 'superloos' (only without the 10 minute timer), in a relatively open position.


Why on earth did your office get broken into?

[mrsbrown.livejournal.com]

My problem is with the perception of what is required to be "safe". I would like the right to live without ungrounded fear.

If the statistics associated with assaults on women in office buildings like mine vs, say, at home, or in nightclubs were examined, I'm willing to bet that the toilets are VERY safe in comparison.

Do the women in my building feel unsafe _because_ the toilet has been locked, reinforcing the perception of a lack of safety for women everytime they collect the key? Or because the toilets are genuinely unsafe places?

[auntyyolly.livejournal.com]

It's not just Dutch. My Aussie workmates still laugh everytime I absentmindedly say outloud; "Empty bladder, functional brain", but ask any of the English horsey set and we'll vie for the veracity of that statement ...

Brownie m'dear, you need a job with sane people. I think you're worth it.

[splodgenoodles.livejournal.com]

I don't disagree with any of that.

It would be interesting to know how the key thing arose - any chance you can find out? (I'm now really curious. I'm also curious about why you have to chip in for the key when it's not your concern - this suggests the company is requiring it, but refusing to take responsibility for it. Seems very inconsistent.)

The chicken or the egg is a fair thing to ask.

-There used to be a pamphlet I saw around a lot in CHCs and such places on 'safe living' for women - about how to be safe when you're out and about. It was all about not going down dark streets or being alone at night and making sure someone always knew where you were (so much for spontaneous acts of ambulation!). To my mind, that was reinforcement of fear.

-OTOH, getting 10B to fix some windows so I could sleep at night was not - I knew my fear was irrational, but pandering to it and fixing the windows meant I got more sleep. So I'm classing that one as a positive solution.

[damned-colonial.livejournal.com]

Gah. I hate how people have this totally fucked up perception of what's safe and unsafe. Like, people ask me if I feel safe living alone, with the implication that complete strangers might break in through two locked doors and rape me for no reason whatsoever. This despite the fact that most rapes are done by partners or family members of the victims. I'm safer living alone than with a boyfriend/husband, statistically speaking.

The other night on the tram some young women were chatting and asking people sitting near to them for advice on clubs/bars to go to. I said I didn't know any in the city these days, then the conversation moved to how much a taxi would cost to get from the CBD to Melbourne Uni. I said perhaps they should just walk, since it wasn't far. Of course they wanted to know if that was safe. I wanted to ask them, "Compared to what? CBD nightclubs?"

[damned-colonial.livejournal.com]

The problem with all that "safety" advice about not walking alone and not wearing tight clothes and not drinking, is that the minute you do any of them, you're just *asking* to be raped. Because it's always our fault, duh. Must maintain proper state of fear at all times. Gah.

[damned-colonial.livejournal.com]

I kind of get security-consciousness with loos in CBD buildings

Really? Even in, say, well-maintained, modern, multi-story office blocks?

Last CBD office loo I visited was on the umpteenth floor of a place on Collins St, where a friend works. I was meeting her for dinner so swung by her office first. It honestly never would've occurred to me to worry about security there, or in any office block I've worked in here or abroad.

Then again, it's never actually occurred to me to be nervous about my personal safety in much dodgier loos than that. When I use the loos at Flinders St I often worry about the cleanliness, smell, presence of irritating teenagers, etc, but the most I do wrt security is not to let my bag lie halfway out under the door of the cubicle.

[splodgenoodles.livejournal.com]

Yep. At one point I even saw self defence classes advertised on those lines - ie - if you don't do our course you're asking to be a victim...and you *will* be a victim.

(I'm happy to say the people I learnt from did not take that attitude. But there is still the old, old problem that this only deals with public/overt violence against women, which just ain't how it happens most of the time.)

Back to those loos

[villana.livejournal.com]

The lock on the door having a combination key pad totally gets my vote, no key needed, removes the need for irritating "Please Sir. Can I have the key?" conversations.
I would also have a lock installed on the men's loo too. "For their own safety" prefferably after finding a scary article about men being raped/assualted in public loos and leaving it lying in the tea room or pasting it to the men' room door...

Re: Back to those loos

[lurextoga.livejournal.com]

Villain

Pray tell, what kind of scary article? A red g-string? Ooops did I really write that?

[lurextoga.livejournal.com]

Yep - It is safety in general but it is peculiar to the areas which are not always being used in our building. Toilets, storage areas. There is a level of safety awareness and it goes for both men and women - there is no distinction. But we do not have keys to our toilets and I hope we never do.

The attitude to safety to which I am referring is systemic and is linked to a powerful large group dynamic in the company for which I work. I think it is a combination of:
-A few security-related incidents where people actually died (not pretty), which jolted what had been a traditional and fairly open culture.
-The nature of the business activity - internal and external
**a small portion of our internal activity is more hazardous for some employees than the sum total of our public activity. For the staff involved in this, they are literally locked-down under some of the tightest security I have ever heard about in organisations, because the nature of their work has made / makes some of our other employees want to hurt and/or kill them.
**any security-related problems in our commercial activity would have an international impact - so you get that heightened security-consciousness which is intrajected and played out at a large group level.
-where the organisation is located (personal and vehicle theft, sporadic assault, open drug dealing, open injecting) - validates the unconscious and conscious anxieties of a large group.
-Projection which mirrors the behaviour of our stakeholder (govt.), which is all about the manifestation of anxiety and how it is contained.
-Regular, frequent attempts at trespassing - at times strangers get all the way into work areas - to many people, this is 'proof'. [The unidentified, confident guy who sauntered into our work area on the 3rd floor yesterday from the goods lift/toilet zone was dealt with very swiftly and sent on his way; I remain amazed that he got past security.]

mmm. This is very interesting. I smell a thesis on cultures of deception. Pity it's the wrong org-dynamic topic for this year's work.
Mrs Brown's original rant has produced some really good discussion and it has got me thinking.

A basis for the loo safety thing...

[mishymoocow-2.livejournal.com]

I was working in a CBD multi-storey office in '89. In the previous year, there was a rapist who would go hide in the ladies in various buildings, then rape a woman who was in there alone. In those days none of the floors had locked doors, and none of the loos either. I'm not sure they ever caught him. It was during that time that keys etc. started to happen.

At our building, multiple keys were left at reception, and you just collected them on your way past. I think they locked the mens as well.

Perhaps some of your colleagues recall this time? So there is (somewhere) a kernel of legitimacy in their fear.

[anthraxia.livejournal.com]

Must admit I was somewhat disconcerted by my English (pub) workmates habit of not just saying "off to the loo" or something similar, but outlining what precisely they were going to do there. In the end, I started responding to the deputy manager's cries of "just off to take a dump" with "liar, we all know you're off for a wank."

Actually, maybe that's what it will take.

Mrs Brown: "Who has the key to the loos?"
Workmate: "Here it is"
Mrs B. : "Thank you. I just want you to know that I'm not going for illicit sex in the loos, or a sneaky spot of masturbation, or to shoot up heroin or anything. I'm just going for a quick pee and maybe squeeze a few spots. But I'll be locking myself in - just in case of a random attack, you know. Not because I'm doing anything naughty or anything. Definately not engaging in hot phone sex with my husband. No, not at all. Honestly!"

[mr-bassman.livejournal.com]

Definately not engaging in hot phone sex with my husband. No, not at all. Honestly!


Yes Please!