So, will this man get me a job?

[mrsbrown]

I went to an interview with a recruitment agency this morning. I had been there before, last time I was made redundant, about 9 years ago.

It seemed to go well, I wasn't talking to the same man as last time. We went through my CV from my education to now, filling in exactly how long I worked places, how long I spent unemployed etc, what I have done. Then Fatso said he would go and get his coleague, Smarmy.

I first met Smarmy about 9 years ago, like I said. We had spent a lot of time talking about my attitude to marriage and not so much time talking about my work or what I could do (which wasn't that much, I had only worked for 4months since graduating). I had my suspicions then, and later, when there were graduate engineering positions advertised by the same agency, I didn't get a call.

Today, one of the first things Smarmy said to me was, "I remember you, you had some problems then, didn't you?" I denied it and we chatted for a bit. Then he asked, "Are you wearing the clothes you would normally wear to work?"

I was wearing one of my favourite outfits. An outfit I have been complemented on, at work. My Country Road grey wool skirt with the embroidery aroung the bottom, my long sleeved, close fitting top with the lacy V-neck, my patterned net stockings and my Mary Jane style shoes. I had even lashed out and put on a quiet shade of lipstick.

I answered, "yes, or my suit, or trousers and a top...?" he went on, "you should wear the suit to interviews, this is a man's world and you will get on better if you present a familiar style" He lectured on for about five minutes, about my clothing and the presentation style required and finished with "lose the fishnet stockings."

Why don't I feel he will be trying very hard to find me a job, or even present me in a positive light to his clients, my potential employers?

Comments

[splodgenoodles.livejournal.com]

Yuck.

What an arsehole.

[splodgenoodles.livejournal.com]

I just realised something:

you challenged his interpretation...

...so he criticised how you look.

You have to give him credit, he knows how to bring someone down a peg.

Still, doesn't solve the problem - he's not going to help a woman who won't suck his (metaphorical)cock. And then thank him for the honour.

Yet if you did, you'd hardly be cut out for a job in engineering.

You can see why he works in recruitment.

[sacred-chao.livejournal.com]

Gah...what an incredibly brickable excuse for a human being. The really galling thing is that there's not a lot you can do. I hate the setup with job agencies where it's simply not possible for you to deal directly with prospective employers. Yet again, best o' luck to you.

[sjkasabi.livejournal.com]

Fucking bastard. I'd be looking for another recruitment agency, though I probably wouldn't have had to, admittedly, because I seem to have internalised his bastardry young enough that I would have worn the suit to the agency interview.

Being clever and unashamed you, maybe you could ask for another consultant at the agency?

Actually,

[mrsbrown.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure about the nature of the interaction.

He may have been just handing out good advice. I mean, is the outfit I described not suitable for an interview? What do people think?

Part of my anger is over me possibly mis reading "appropriate" interview clothing and just opting for something I like. I thought it was walking the line between interesting, and conservative feminine.

When I applied for the job, I had actually noted that I would be dealing with another consultant, then he went and got Smarmy after we had finished talking. There are no other consultants at that agency.

I'm inclined, after I get a job, to ring and give him some feedback...

Re: Actually,

[splodgenoodles.livejournal.com]

I would not wear net stockings myself... or try and look interesting. 'Interesting' - like perfume- gives people something to object to.

Would wear slate grey to *almost* black pantyhose.

When I went to the interview for my last job, I almost did not wear pantyhose. It was quite a warm day so I didn't want to. But a colleague strongly advised me to err on the side of caution so I did.

Found out after I got the job that interviewees not wearing pantyhose to interviews with those people (subdued p'hose as described) were never employed. Just one of those things.

Re: Actually,

[jadeluxe.livejournal.com]

i wore net stockings to my channel 7 interview, under my skirt suit, with heels. with a huge green beaded brooch that i love, but isn't very conservative. in the past i've always tried to steer clear of standard suit look because everyone else is guaranteed to be wearing that, and you want to be remembered.
i think Smarmy is a knob. at least you looked presentable AND interesting, not like every other goose walking in with a pants suit and white shirt. shows a bit of initiative.

as an aside, i had the weirdest dream a few nights ago that you were a newsreader, and zyl (sp?) was the weatherman, and he drew all his own maps and satellite graphs, and the ratings went through the roof and all the bigwigs were congratulating themselves on hiring a mother-and-son team. weird!! :)

Re: Actually,

[splodgenoodles.livejournal.com]

Musing on this overnight:

I have never owned a suit, and for job interviews, I wore clothes that suited me. It was more the bits and pieces that mattered - I normally lugged around a back pack, but I'd carry my CV in an (almost) briefcase. And I'd wear stockings, that sort of thing.

Mind you, I'm not an engineer.

So I'm prevaricating. He might have just been getting you back for disagreeing, he might have had a point.

Re: Actually,

[sjkasabi.livejournal.com]

The usual rule of thumb for a job interview is, wear the most conservative version of what you might realistically expect to wear for the job. So, frex, for my last interview I wore my grey suit with a white blouse, which I do wear sometimes, but I'm more likely to wear one of my several black suits with a strongly coloured knit top.

The other rule of thumb that books and websites always tell you is, if you're a woman, wear a skirt. Presumably on the "it's more conservative" grounds (or else the people writing the books are just sexist bastards). I thought about that one, and wore a trouser suit, on the grounds that that's actually what counts as the most unexeceptional, unworrying thing in my organisation. Also, due to knowing the workplace culture, I knew the odds were that the majority of the interview panel would be women who wore trousers to work a lot.

So I think it depends on where you [want to] work, and the idea is to give a visual cue that your fitting in is a total non-issue. If I were going for a job in an arty place, I'd probably deliberately wear non-conservative clothing, because that would be more in tune with the standard thing in an arty job. If I were you, I'd wear a boring suit that doesn't have anything to say about itself to the interview. Then once you get the job you decide what you're prepared to actually wear to work!

It's much harder doing all this if you're a woman. I read an interesting book LZ lent me once, feminist self-helpy thing, but written by a linguist. She pointed this out using the linguistic term "marked". If you're a man, you have access to clothes that make you unmarked, they are universally neutral, they don't say anything much about you. Wear a dark suit, a white shirt, a dark tie and cut your hair short. Bingo. You could be anyone, an office zombie or a plumber on his way to a funeral. There is no equivalent for women. All the dress options make a statement for you (a woman in a suit, why is she trying to look like a man? oh a woman in a skirt, why is she trying to look feminine?), so you have to work to find the one which is closest to neutral in any given context. Which is work. That puts you at risk if you guess wrong. And men don't have to do the work or take the risk.

interview dress

[doushkasmum.livejournal.com]

Late entry here, I would also go for the conservitive end. Probably not the lacy stockings. If you want considered expert opinion ask Michelle. She had obviously studied the matter in some detail including advice on how to vary the look depending on the gender of the panel members. Hair up for women interviwers and hair down for men, I think she said.

[g-i-dennis.livejournal.com]

Hello, a random search dropped me here, and I thought I'd comment...

When I used to do hiring, I didn't focus too much on appearance. As long as you put *some* effort into your appearance (you can't look like you just jumped out of the clothes hamper), I was fine. The others, I wish I could say the same. It's probably because I was the "young, edgy" guy in the department, I focused on other things.

Some bozo in a nice suit could come in, fail to answer the questions properly, but manage to say the flattering key words (whatever buzz words were in fashion that year) and they would recommend him. When they would turn out to be horrible employees, I would tell them I told you so (I was younger and more of a prick). They actually started listening to me and we started getting better employees.

Okay, it wasn't the fastest way to the moral, but the moral is that while a conservative/uptight appearance shouldn't matter, sadly, it still does. My advice is to play the game and then try to change it when you get inside.

Anyway, back to random searches.